tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post114980552258327387..comments2023-05-28T10:09:53.188-05:00Comments on Knight Errant: A few words about women's eroticaAngela Knighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16476563437619222290noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-20043834826319235042007-03-11T11:49:00.000-05:002007-03-11T11:49:00.000-05:00By the number of comments posted here, I can tell ...By the number of comments posted here, I can tell you struck a chord! <BR/><BR/>Sex for sex sake has its place, I'm sure--in the erotica section of the bookstore! What gets me riled up is seeing our books stocked there instead of the romance section. Readers have to find us. Many have followed us from e-pub to print, and I hope they set the booksellers straight about where they want to find our books. <BR/><BR/>What's really fun to receive are the readers who write to say they'd never read anything so hot in their life, and they can't imagine ever going back to reading the tame stuff again. Once that bedroom door is opened, they want to remove it altogether! So, in the meantime, we write the hottest things they've ever read, give them a real story that's only enhanced with the sex, and a hero they want to follow through the fire!Delilah Devlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08103081138960745474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1158697812014730152006-09-19T15:30:00.000-05:002006-09-19T15:30:00.000-05:00Well said! If there's no HEA it drives me nuts an...Well said! <BR/><BR/>If there's no HEA it drives me nuts and I end up pacing around the house for days wondering what the hell went wrong. The same kind of thing has popped up in more traditional romances (bombshell line at harlequin for example) where the heroine doesn't end up with the hero...or is sort of deciding between 2 heros....doesn't really do it for me.Jennie Andrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12764834686005720413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1158578640117563122006-09-18T06:24:00.000-05:002006-09-18T06:24:00.000-05:00Such excellent common sense - and some great lines...Such excellent common sense - and some great lines.<BR/>Thank you.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1152020220084776012006-07-04T08:37:00.000-05:002006-07-04T08:37:00.000-05:00Great blog post and comments!Great blog post and comments!mandymrothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04498120017795632562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1151168209837353532006-06-24T11:56:00.000-05:002006-06-24T11:56:00.000-05:00Amen, sister!You're absolutely right...I do not wa...Amen, sister!<BR/><BR/>You're absolutely right...I do not want to read about an up and down sexual journey, and I don't like depressing sexual "mis-encounters" before a character hits the sexual jackpot. I want to read <B>erotic romance</B> between characters that are going to have a chance out of the bedroom. <BR/><BR/>I think this mass rush to publish erotica has a lot to do with the sucess of epublishers like Ellora's Cave, NCP, and others who are slowly taking readers from NY houses. Marketing people who don't understand erotic romance, are only going to see it as rampant sex and aren't going to understand it well enough to sell it effectively. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions: Berkeley and Kensington (Aphrodisia) come to mind right away. But in general, those trying to jump on the erotica bandwagon are really missing the point. They read the sexy excerpts and decide to heap everything sexy into one genre--erotica, sexual journey--without noticing the defining elements of romance blended in.Cora Zanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09461246984192089505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149987206594460642006-06-10T19:53:00.000-05:002006-06-10T19:53:00.000-05:00Will they REALLY figure it out... I have my doubts...Will they REALLY figure it out... I have my doubts with some of the publishers, but then again, some I'm very happy with. So it's, yet again, a waiting game. Let's hope it's not another 20 years until I get what I REALLY want. Thank god Angela's out there in mass market. That's all I can say.Rae Monethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09073505933356949552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149975234412195812006-06-10T16:33:00.000-05:002006-06-10T16:33:00.000-05:00Hi. I've been reading the comments with interest,...Hi. I've been reading the comments with interest, as they say. Unfortunately, I think there are some women who can't tell the difference between erotica with a relationship and erotica without. Or maybe they don't care. I have a new book out called SHADOW OF THE MOON. I just got a letter from a woman who says she's a fan of mine. But she hates this book. Why? Because I dared to use S&M as my theme. She accuses me of using crude language and graphic descriptions. Well, the language in the book is exactly the same as the language I regularly use. My descriptions of love scenes are similar--except that there's some mild bondage and subjugation as part of the action. I'd never write a romance without a happy ending. I focus on the developing relationship between my h/h the way I always do. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE S&m SUBJECT MATTER. (Tastefully handled, I might add. -g-) This reader can't see past that aspect of the book. Perhaps the editors who want hot sex and no relationship can't tell the difference, either? Sad thought. Or maybe they'll be smart enough to get it?<BR/><BR/>Rebecca, scratching her headRebecca Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00868406006575223127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149956577085347782006-06-10T11:22:00.000-05:002006-06-10T11:22:00.000-05:00You are absolutely right! Erotica is great if that...You are absolutely right! Erotica is great if that's what a person is looking for, but erotica is not erotic romance. If I've purchased a book marketed as an erotic romance, I'm not interested in reading a series of bed-hopping scenes. I want romance! I want to fall in love with the hero! If not a HEA ending, I want one that is at least satisfying. If the book is a fantasy erotic romance and part of a series I don't mind the book ending with the heroine going her own way, knowing she and the hero are going to meet up again for another adventure. <BR/><BR/>But no romance ... that's just boring.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the wonderful post.Adrienne Kamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747331796080349751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149946436329856692006-06-10T08:33:00.000-05:002006-06-10T08:33:00.000-05:00Very, very well said.Thanks for the great ost Ange...Very, very well said.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the great ost Angela ;)K.A.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07622409218326515538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149937351667509862006-06-10T06:02:00.000-05:002006-06-10T06:02:00.000-05:00This point was debated at length among a number of...This point was debated at length among a number of readers on blogs last month after I spotted an interview with the Editorial Director of Kensington's Aphrodisia line in which she clearly states HEA not required, though they're labeled as erotic romance. <BR/><BR/>Since you have mostly authors commenting here, I thought you'd be interested in reading the feedback some readers gave to this. I'm posting a link to a discussion that spun off from my blog, because this discussion has the most comprehensive discourse without visiting ten other blogs, lol. <BR/><BR/>http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=256<BR/><BR/>But to summarize for you--and this was shown in a small poll given on my blog where there were about 40 respondants and 75% of them responded in this manner--most romance readers demand a HEA in their romance. If it's labeled a romance, erotic romance, then the publisher and author had better be delivering the expected HEA or readers will abandon said author and publishing line in favor of someone who will deliver. <BR/><BR/>Romance readers agree that romance does change and evolve, but most felt that the HEA was too expected and integral to give up. They don't want to just sex, no plot, no characterization. They want to see a relationship, a building of ideas, a meeting of minds. Anything else isn't romance, it's erotica, women's fiction, chick lit, etc. Don't call it erotic romance or romance and expect that readers won't be savvy enough to know the difference--and speak with their wallet. <BR/><BR/>~AngieAngela Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03083836635501265476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149937275445399322006-06-10T06:01:00.000-05:002006-06-10T06:01:00.000-05:00Hear, hear!This is why its so upsetting to me to s...Hear, hear!<BR/><BR/>This is why its so upsetting to me to see RWA continue to poo-poo erorom. If they refuse to define erotic romance as romance, then honestly, why wouldn't the publishers not see it as romance either?<BR/><BR/>You can't just say, "Oh, the sales numbers won't bear it out and the readers will buy real erotic romance and la la la." Because when that first wave of "erotic romances" hit the stores, and readers--many of whom are picking up their very first erotic romance--see there's no HEA, they're going to give up on them. And that doesn't hurt the publishers. They go on to publish something else. It hurts us, the writers. It hurts the readers who are looking for something special.<BR/><BR/>If RWA continues to insist that erorom "isn't romance", then of course the publishers aren't going to know any different.Staciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969399927758009095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149903289702594602006-06-09T20:34:00.000-05:002006-06-09T20:34:00.000-05:00I'm sitting here after reading your rant and think...I'm sitting here after reading your rant and thinking, OH, GOD, NO! I thought NY knew what the hell was going on and why epubbed authors are writing what they're writing. My dh says, "Well, everything you write seems to be erotic!" And I said, hell yes! I love writing stories that get me hot and bothered and have the HEA I crave. And, yes, every sexual encounter is part and parcel of the story. Remember that old song? "You can't have one without the other." <BR/>I started reading romance novels over thirty years ago when my dh and I had a children's book store and I got free galleys of books at ABA conventions. I got bored with the asterisks in Cartland's books after about five. Then I found Small's "The Kadin". Now that was exactly what I wanted then. Sex and a fascinating story with intelligent women and sexy men - lots of sexy men.<BR/>And that's what I want now. So I write that - intelligent women, hot sex and hot men and a HEA!Jeannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12430195762629030092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149899973703628042006-06-09T19:39:00.000-05:002006-06-09T19:39:00.000-05:00Well said, Angela. :-)jan, toasting a cyber glass ...Well said, Angela. :-)<BR/><BR/>jan, toasting a cyber glass of champagneJan Springer, Erotic Romance Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17916337941392326184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149894436487168842006-06-09T18:07:00.000-05:002006-06-09T18:07:00.000-05:00I'm a huge fan of erotica but I insist on my HEA! ...I'm a huge fan of erotica but I insist on my HEA! If I don't want a plot I'll watch cheap porn. (or any porn for that matter *G*)<BR/><BR/>As a writer just starting out in this market, the publishing attitude concerns me. Here I am agonizing over backstory and emotions and they're just looking for "wham bam thank you mam"? <BR/><BR/>Let hope they clue in quickly since I'll be querying them at the end of the summer (or so).FeyRhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10411034163619306886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149889465366444222006-06-09T16:44:00.000-05:002006-06-09T16:44:00.000-05:00I couldn't agree with you more. I love lots of hot...I couldn't agree with you more. I love lots of hot sex in my stories, but I'm not interested in sex for sex sake. I don't want to walk away from a book feeling like I've wasted a chunk of my life. You go AK!!!Eve Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13376052942369073093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149888523499334522006-06-09T16:28:00.000-05:002006-06-09T16:28:00.000-05:00Honey, I hear ya. I started writing romantic eroti...Honey, I hear ya. I started writing romantic erotica in 1995, mostly short stories that I sold to one of three publishers of spanking fiction. (I still write stories for one of them.) Thing is, I never was much of a romance reader--mostly because, until the last few years, romances didn't have much in the way of hot sex. Give me a realistic HEA (not an oxymoron, snort) and some really hot sex with a man who likes to spank his lady, and, well, I'll read it. And read it. And read it.<BR/><BR/>Great post!<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/><BR/>BarrieBarrie Abalardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13277501962046377497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149877830146803482006-06-09T13:30:00.000-05:002006-06-09T13:30:00.000-05:00Amen AK! - Ya’no, I was at that writers’ conventio...Amen AK!<BR/> - Ya’no, I was at that writers’ convention. I heard what those supposed ‘gods of publishing’ editors were saying, and it just about gave me the biggest moment of disillusionment in my life. <BR/><BR/>These were the High and Mighty EDITORS of the Big Houses -- where all us ebook authors aspire to publish… They were supposed to Know Everything! <BR/><BR/> - What sold like hotcakes... <BR/> - What didn’t work...<BR/> - What made an Author a STAR. <BR/><BR/>And they didn’t have a damned clue as to what made Erotic Romance the genre it was! <BR/><BR/><B> - “It’s not a romance…” </B><BR/><B> - “Plot isn’t important…”</B><BR/><B> - “Just make it hot.” </B><BR/><B> - “ER is a showcase for the sexy hero. The heroine is incidental. The readers could care less about her.” </B><BR/><B> - “It doesn’t need a Happy Ending.” </B><BR/><B> - You don’t need to bring your book proposal when you go to an author/editor interview…” </B><I>(Oh wait, that’s a different rant.) </I><BR/><BR/>Not one frikkin Clue! <BR/>Talk about your total disillusionment.<BR/><BR/>They knew the Name, but clearly they hadn’t bothered to Read any of the books that made the genre what it was. Or they only read the Early ER books -- the cheap ones. <BR/><BR/>Isn’t the first rule of writing…?<BR/><I><B> “Write what you KNOW.” </B></I><BR/><BR/>Well damn it, the first rule of publishing should be:<BR/><I><B> “Publish what you KNOW.” </B></I><BR/> <BR/><B>Do your RESEARCH <I>Damn It! </I></B><BR/>- Who is consistently getting the best Reviews? <BR/>- Who do the fans Talk About? <BR/>- Who are the top money-makers at each of the ebook houses?<BR/><BR/>But most of all...<BR/>- READ the damned ebooks that MADE Erotic Romance the hottest selling genre it is today! <BR/><BR/>Is that so hard?<BR/><BR/>SOME of those houses got smart and acquired seasoned ebook authors, (in some cases, completely by accident,) and surprise, surprise...! Those authors sell like mad bastards. AK, MJD, KD, JB... <BR/><BR/>Well, gee... How did THAT happen? Could it be because those authors Knew their Genre? <BR/><BR/>(Face-palm...) <BR/><BR/>So far as I know, <I>Berkley </I>has a clue, <I>Red Sage (Secrets)</I> has always had a clue, and <I>Kensington</I> is getting their clue the hard way -- through sales numbers. (The seasoned ebook authors are outselling all the other authors combined. Imagine that?) <BR/><BR/>But from what I heard at that last convention, coming out of the mouths of those editors, print publishing still has a long way to go before they finally realize what Erotic Romance actually is. <BR/><BR/>(Sigh...)Morgan Hawkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263736921990480868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149873978930764972006-06-09T12:26:00.000-05:002006-06-09T12:26:00.000-05:00Hell, yeah! I tried the "self-discovery" route wit...Hell, yeah! I tried the "self-discovery" route with Black Lace and have to say it just wasn't my cup of tea. When I read erotic, I want a strong plot, a romantic relationship, a satisfying ending and the hero's POV. I don't want a sexier version of women's fiction! At the very least, the hero and heroine should be worth rooting for and should be "together" at the end.<BR/><BR/>I know Shelley posted that Berkley HEAT doesn't require an HEA, but my contract with them specifies erotic romance. That, in my opinion, means HEA required -- and I wouldn't have it any other way.<BR/><BR/>What I'm afraid of is those lines that brand themselves as erotic romance, just to get the romance-buying crowd, then provides erotica as self-discovery. That would piss off a lot of readers. I just hope the problem corrects itself *before* it turns away too many readers.Kathleen Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00224060296528708475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149871331749654322006-06-09T11:42:00.000-05:002006-06-09T11:42:00.000-05:00I like both types of stories. To me, they're both ...I like both types of stories. To me, they're both good, except when I'm in the mood to read one type or the other, I don't want to be misled. If there is no interaction between the characters outside of sex and the story doesn't have a HEA, please don't label it an erotic romance. Straight erotica is great, but not if I'm expecting a romantic storyline along with it. I'll read both, as long as I know what to expect when I pick up the book.Kate Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06508799810759533960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149868640546080762006-06-09T10:57:00.000-05:002006-06-09T10:57:00.000-05:00I agree 100% And you are right about not coming ...I agree 100% And you are right about not coming back if there is no HEA...I have a couple authors that I refuse to read because there was no HEA. Women want HEA, with their hot sex!J.L. Langleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947371459643701023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149866723796099592006-06-09T10:25:00.000-05:002006-06-09T10:25:00.000-05:00EXactly!! maybe they will see where they are goin...EXactly!! maybe they will see where they are going wrong, and change it.HOPEFULLY. i went through the same thing you did, very frustrating.catthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13067309736779689757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149863149491343412006-06-09T09:25:00.000-05:002006-06-09T09:25:00.000-05:00This should be required reading for every writer w...This should be required reading for every writer who says "Oh yeah...I can write an erotic romance. It's just a lot of sex."<BR/><BR/>I need the romance. I need the relationship. I need the hero's POV. I need the emotions otherwise...what's the point? Doesn't matter to me if the sex scenes are deliciously hot if there's nothing <I>out</I> of the bedroom (or where ever they're boffing) because if I don't care about the characters, I don't care period. Plus what is sexier then a reformed hero madly in love with the heroine as he does delicious things to her body? Grrrowf.<BR/><BR/>I'd give a standing ovation but I'm wounded so I'll just raise my glass and toast you with a "hell freakin' yeah!" and quaff back an Advil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149862447074982822006-06-09T09:14:00.000-05:002006-06-09T09:14:00.000-05:00Hey AJ,I love you. You hit the nail right on the h...Hey AJ,<BR/><BR/>I love you. You hit the nail right on the head. Sex for sex's sake is boring. I want plot, an alpha hero, a heroine who can handle him, and hot sex with a HEA. Not too much to ask for in my opinion.judymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943064020934427087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149862369648121152006-06-09T09:12:00.000-05:002006-06-09T09:12:00.000-05:00What everyone else said! I don't want just meanin...What everyone else said! I don't want just meaningless sex scenes strung together--I want to see the development of the relationship. Give me my HEA, dammit!Sherrill Quinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165537099727789986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9966603.post-1149861905049588692006-06-09T09:05:00.000-05:002006-06-09T09:05:00.000-05:00Do I hear an amen? You are so, so right!I've heard...Do I hear an amen? You are so, so right!<BR/><BR/>I've heard the no plot, no HEA, no romance comment and though, huh? I wouldn't want to read that. What makes you think I want to write it?<BR/><BR/>Berkley HEAT doesn't require an HEA, but I write for that line and insist on having one. My upcoming WICKED TIES is a big, ol' BDSM book--but it's romantic. He loves her. She loves him. Without all this, for me, the sex in any book is just pointless and frustrating. Hard to get off when I couldn't care less about the characters, their emotional journey, and I know their brewing sex life will go nowhere. The point of the book isn't just orgasm... What are these people thinking?<BR/><BR/>Thanks for bringing this up!Shayla Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524869682831494209noreply@blogger.com